Project G.eezS.R. Build thread

[Nick MC]

Another thing I had to do before putting on the quarters was install the lateral hatch bracing. The rear hatch is specific to itr as it has the mounting for the braces. You could probably modify a normal integra hatch but there is a lot of tight corners in the hatch and i was afraid of damaging something on the tear down.




When I had my 01 R I had a personal belief that the rear bulkhead was special to itr. In my process here I found its actually just these gussets that attach the bulkhead to the frame rails. Top is the JDM itr bottom is my car.




I started looking closely at the difference and found that the usdm frame rails are actually reinforced and boxed on the ends to support the 5mph bumper. The JDM ITR has no such bumper and therefore no reinforcements.




Pictured below is the JDM ITR mounting point for the trunk bar. It’s actually the same part that it used for the sunroof mounting.



Because the usdm is boxed in I can’t show exactly how this next part was done but basically I just drilled two holes and used threaded inserts to mount it.








The funny thing is on the JDM car I can see this helping, but on the usdm cars the trunk bar is redundant if not completely useless as there is big steel beam bolted to the frame ends doing the same thing. I’m pretty sure that it’s more rigid than a sch 40 pipe.

[coolhandluke]

This is getting fun. I like that you are digging into items we previously thought or were unsure on between DC2 Type R & none chassis.

[Nick MC]

This is getting fun. I like that you are digging into items we previously thought or were unsure on between DC2 Type R & none chassis.

Physically measuring pieces from the ITR and GSR should be the one way to settle the myths. Looking at the parts websites throws me off a bit because they show different numbers for ITR parts. Below is a perfect example between 2001 ITR and GSR. I measured the lower extensions too but lost the pics. They were all 22 gauge steel. The one thing I noticed in the parts catalogs the reaffirms my findings is the two trims share the same part number for the left rear fender extension. I'm kind of in the thought that if a few parts are the same then they all must be the same. The variation in part numbers could simply mean there's a mounting location for an ECM of some sort that's not present in ITR. My GSR has tons of mounting point for things on the inner structure that the ITR did not. Another thing I haven't come across yet was any seam welding. Though my donor was cut from the a pillar back so I can't attest to the front clip, but everything was spot welded like any other assembly line produced vehicle.







My “ aha” moment was when I pulled the quarter off and saw the b pillar reinforced on the usdm car and not the JDM model. The evidence is in the 25 year rule to import a car. The JDM cars, even something that is sold in North America under the same model, don’t meet federal crash safety standards. The only way to sell the 97-01 integra type r was if it shared the same chassis. If it wasn’t similar enough to the standard integra Honda would need to crash a bunch to pass testing.

This is not to say that earlier integras weren’t weaker. I can’t speak for anything newer than 98. I did some research on the NHTSA website. In 1996 they started testing for side crashes and rating them, around the same time Honda started selling its new “more rigid” integra type R. My guess is to keep the integra in our market they used to type r as a test bed for these enhancements in safety. Where as the civic for example changed the generation completely to meet these requirements.

The one take away I got from all this is our USDM cars are safer. Assuming honda did their research in how to take a hit from a half ton pick up. I'd be curious to see what a JDM ITR weights next to USDM. I'd almost guarantee you ours are heavier.

[Nick MC]

Spent the last few days on panel and hatch aligned. Front end of the car is in great shape. The rear on the other hand has been problematic. I’d attribute to the fact that I replaced the rear quarters and I’m using the hatch from another car.

Slowly but surely it will line up but as I was battling with the hatch I was comparing the difference between the two cars. Again, to see if there was something different causing my headaches.

One thing that isn’t talked to much about the ITR aside from being some “ricer” mod is the rear spoiler. I remember talking to a friend about members tracking their R’s at an expo with the wing and noticed instability at high speeds. The fact that there’s lateral alignment pads in the hatch channels should clue you into the wing being more than a fashion statement.

These are 3 different hinges I have, left to right it’s ITR,GSR,LS. One thing you’ll notice about the itr is it’s double plated probably to prevent tear out from lateral forces on the hatch. I honestly never paid too much attention to this on my usdm itr maybe it’s just a JDM thing.

ITR hinges

GSR hinges
Another spot that’s reinforced on the hatch that’s not talked about too much is the lateral pad mounting. This pic was inside right of the hatch. You can see a plate that ties the structure together to where the pad mounts. So this isn’t simply a nut welded to the inside like the trunk bars.


Below is the GSR hatch in the same location. Notice there is just a hole for the rubber foot to mount. Picture rotated so top is left

[coolhandluke]

Oh wow, this is really cool for you to document and give back to the community. This topic has been an active question and discussion for longer than I have been around. At the end, we should collaborate on a separate thread to highlight.

[Stin1]

This is getting fun. I like that you are digging into items we previously thought or were unsure on between DC2 Type R & none chassis.

Physically measuring pieces from the ITR and GSR should be the one way to settle the myths. Looking at the parts websites throws me off a bit because they show different numbers for ITR parts. Below is a perfect example between 2001 ITR and GSR. I measured the lower extensions too but lost the pics. They were all 22 gauge steel. The one thing I noticed in the parts catalogs the reaffirms my findings is the two trims share the same part number for the left rear fender extension. I'm kind of in the thought that if a few parts are the same then they all must be the same. The variation in part numbers could simply mean there's a mounting location for an ECM of some sort that's not present in ITR. My GSR has tons of mounting point for things on the inner structure that the ITR did not. Another thing I haven't come across yet was any seam welding. Though my donor was cut from the a pillar back so I can't attest to the front clip, but everything was spot welded like any other assembly line produced vehicle.







My “ aha” moment was when I pulled the quarter off and saw the b pillar reinforced on the usdm car and not the JDM model. The evidence is in the 25 year rule to import a car. The JDM cars, even something that is sold in North America under the same model, don’t meet federal crash safety standards. The only way to sell the 97-01 integra type r was if it shared the same chassis. If it wasn’t similar enough to the standard integra Honda would need to crash a bunch to pass testing.

This is not to say that earlier integras weren’t weaker. I can’t speak for anything newer than 98. I did some research on the NHTSA website. In 1996 they started testing for side crashes and rating them, around the same time Honda started selling its new “more rigid” integra type R. My guess is to keep the integra in our market they used to type r as a test bed for these enhancements in safety. Where as the civic for example changed the generation completely to meet these requirements.

The one take away I got from all this is our USDM cars are safer. Assuming honda did their research in how to take a hit from a half ton pick up. I'd be curious to see what a JDM ITR weights next to USDM. I'd almost guarantee you ours are heavier.

There’s an old autoweek test drive on YouTube mentioning on one of the earlier cars it hadn’t met the future NHTSA standards. On the 96-00 civic hatchback the later models (not sure what year they changed it ) , the civic gets a big aluminum plate under the rear seat that would provide additional support in a side collision. It’s big enough that the quarter panels interior plastics aren’t interchangeable . That bar also I believe is the reason ek9 rear seats won’t fit a U.S model .I am not sure if the bar was present in the coupes.

[JDMJNKY]

Ok, this is another awesome "this is nuts" thread.

[Stin1]

7-1-2019
Now I want to focus on some of the mechanical end of this. Early I had stated I was "happy" with the body end of things and willing to deal with those problems when it came time. In the mean time I planned on making the car mechanically sound, engine, and suspension. You can see in some pictures above that I have since converted it to 5 lug at the risk of taking some originality away, but I want to make the car my own while also restoring it. I'll be walking that line in this process. I've learned quite a bit this last year but this project as also raised many questions about what honda did when making integras. So as to contribute to the Type R community, during this build I'm going to focus on differences, if any, between the dc2 and dc2r chasis. I hope to document and catalog certain aspects of these cars but start conversation about "What makes a Type R a Type R."

To pick up where I left off on the front end, when I was going back together I realized that the horn was inop. So I did some searching and narrowed down to two options, OEM Acura for $60 or a Honda specific Hella Kit for $15. Now I've already expressed my distrust in certain after market parts but its Hella so hopefully its not garbage. I was pleasantly surprised with the quality and better yet it was plug and play. Now the Integra only has a low tone horn so I put the high tone aside for now. Both connectors are the same so if you wanted to wire them up in parallel to make it hornier I guess you could do it. Long term durability I can't really attest to but if you are looking for a good value you can get these Hella horns on amazon or summit and probably many other online stores.
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I wanted to address the door hinges mainly because I'd be moving the car around and didn't want it slamming the striker off center and breaking something. I can't express this enough and we all know this by now, parts are getting scarce new and used. I searched a few websites for door hinges and was having some issue with certain model year integras. One thing to keep in mind is that part numbers change so just because one maybe discontinued doesn't mean there isn't anything available for your car. I actually ended up buying these from a Honda dealer. They are for 92-95 civic. Its the same thing just a matter of where they were made.
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In the process of the engine swap doing an OBD2A Jdm engine into a 1998 USDM chassis is pretty cut and dry. I do have a plan to make it emissions compliant but for now I just want to get the thing on the road. I have it register as a classic car in my state so its exempt from our Emissions inspection. The JDM engine use less sensors and the pin outs are the same from what I can tell. I used my usdm gsr harness. The routing was similar but when it comes to the intake manifold you may run out of length. I did have to extend the Idle air control connector. It fit but it was tight and any engine movement probably would have damaged the harness over time. Going from GSR to Type R the fuel supply line is different. The gsr is shorter and goes above the intake pipe while the ITR is longer and goes underneath it. A few of the coolant hoses are also discontinued by Acura. Your upper Rad hose and one or two bypass hoses on the rear are discontinued as well. The upper Rad hose is specific to ITR as well as certain bypass hoses. Depending on the year some Integras have the heater bypass valve come out with a 90 deg hose and latter years mount at a 45 deg angle. The one hose I had to go aftermarket with was the small 90 deg that comes out of the heater core to the fire wall. This part was a bit of a headache mostly because I would get the wrong hose have to return it and then figure out a good part number and start the search again. I wanted to keep OEM parts so that was part of the problem, but even the after market was a bit wishy washy with one hose fitment to the next.
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I tried to get as much of the firewall and PS lines situated with the engine out. The throttle cable is new ITR and I removed the cruise control components and plugged the hole in the fire wall for it. The nice thing about this is the cruise control cable stay is the same part for the ITR throttle cable so I didn't have to do anything different there. The GSR has a special bracket for its throttle cable that's mounted on the cowl lip and was removed at this point. All the brackets and stays I sent out for powder coating. I just went with the standard black. This can get little salty but definitely worth the investment IMO. I also swapped out my shift linkage with JDM ITR. I was in the process of changing out all the shifter bushings, O-rings, and hardware but the oem linkage was seized and I couldn't get it apart without breaking it. Luckily found someone local that had this JDM linkage. Not only was it in better shape but they're zinc coated. Fun fact I learned from the guy who had it, Del sols have a slightly shorter linkage compared to other B-series engine cars (EG/DC). When it comes to power steering, being that this engine is a 96 spec, it came with a PR3 pump. The Oem on the GSR being p72. PR3 parts are normally found on 92-98 civic and del sol. Since the p72 pump on the car was leaking I ended up keeping the PR3 pump on and using a later del sol PS high pressure line as it was the cheaper route. Again similar subframe and routing (if not identical).
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A key factor with a type R is chassis reinforcement. Starting at the front of the car the first thing most people notice is the front upper strut bar. Instead of the steel bar of the GSR the ITR has an aluminum bar. Having them side by side the ITR strut bar is slightly heavier but I would guess its less likely to flex in theory. I also noticed the first piece of sound deadening material in the cowl of the GSR which isn't in a ITR. So there's the first increase rigidity and decrease weight formula that honda would apply to the ITR. Now there is a lower bar on the subframe but that's same on both ITR and GSR and I think other models that have this front subframe.
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When the engine was out I did the standard timing belt water pump tensioner deal. I replaced the plugs wires cap and rotor. I also went a little above and beyond and pulled the intake manifold since I could get to it. I replaced every gasket and o-ring and cleaned the carbon from the intake, throttle body, and Idle air control. Once my OCD was happy I threw they engine in and with it off the pallet replaced the oil pan gasket because it appear to be leaking at some point. The exhaust I will be running is a Fujitsubo Legolis R. I had The RM01a on my ITR and love the fit and finish plus the welds are beautiful, though it did get loud at times. So I'm going try this as its seems more docile. I probably waited about 6 months for the exhaust as it was made to order.

Truth be told, after I sold my Camaro I knew I wanted to own another Honda. So I started hording parts a while ago that I knew I wanted to use prior to even having a canvas to use it on. I started by buying a 5 lug setup and rebulding it. Literally starting from the ground up. I had a set spare set of ITR wheels from my 01 ITR that were track duty. I had since powder coated them Cosmic gray. Not exact match to gunmetal but close. Picked up a set of spoon calipers and a jdm 36 MM 5-lug. While doing a 5 lug swap my EM1 I learned that the JDM cars are a bit of a bastard child. Not only do they require their own hubs bearings and axles. The entire set-up front and rear is 5mm wider than USDM ITR, CTR, and 96 spec. The difference being in the spindles and knuckles. The Usdm ITR has probably more in common with the EK9 and 96-spec in terms of suspension components.

Starting with the front I replaced the wheels bearings and lower ball joints. The wheel bearings I used 98 CRV and ball joints are Integra. Gave it a coat of Rustoleum and chased all the threaded holes with taps. I reused the hubs going back together and ordered new rotor dust shields as they were mangled. I had to order the dust shields for a 98 CRV as they are also different on the 98 spec ITR due to the larger bearings.
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I replaced the front and rear calipers and brake line front and rear. The rears I could use USDM calipers and rotors no problem. The Fronts however are USDM ITR rotors and 98 CRV Brake calipers and brackets. The calipers themselves are the same between 98-spec, USDM, and EK9. The main difference is in the bracket where the 98-spec is offset 5mm different. Here I'm test fitting my 5zigen wheel in the front. Fun fact I learned when ordering my exhaust. "GO" in Japanese is pronounced like "Five" and "Zigen" means "Team". So that's how they ended up with 5 in the name. At least that's what I understood.
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In terms of dimensions the GSR and ITR are very similar chassis wise. Looking at my frame measurements in the repair manual every mounting point for the suspension is in the same location. I used 98 spec upper control arms and ITR RLCA. Again replacing all the bushings, wire wheeling and painting them up. New hardware was used and in the process I accidently ordered bolts for and ITR and when I went to put in the control arms I had a lot of bolt left over due to the smaller rear subframe on the GSR. I cleaned some surface rust off the subframe and gave it a coat of primer and under coating. After that I installed an ASR subframe brace. Wanting to keep ABS I went about routing the GSR sensors through all that mess. It was actually quite easy. Being that the RLCA were off of a non-abs car I had to drill 2 holes in each side to mount the harness and just ran a bolt and locking nut. The harness fit perfect under the ASR bar. You can see were the harness would have gone between the shock fork and GSR LCA, it routed perfectly over top of the bolt on the ITR LCA. I used ITR fitment Koni Yellows and stock ITR springs, the fronts being on the lower perch.
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I really hope you are right on the hinges , my bushing is missing now and the door has issues closing properly.
I did the oem horn . It lasted like 12 months and some honks . Right after the warranty ran out I hit the horn and it went meep mer... and stoped working. For a few months it would work one honk and then only the relay. I have a used unit on it now .

[Nick MC]

Oh wow, this is really cool for you to document and give back to the community. This topic has been an active question and discussion for longer than I have been around. At the end, we should collaborate on a separate thread to highlight.

Yes there is a lot of info here that needs condensed.

I really hope you are right on the hinges , my bushing is missing now and the door has issues closing properly.
I did the oem horn . It lasted like 12 months and some honks . Right after the warranty ran out I hit the horn and it went meep mer... and stoped working. For a few months it would work one honk and then only the relay. I have a used unit on it now .

My drivers door lines up perfectly. It should be a pretty safe bet.

[Stin1]

Oh wow, this is really cool for you to document and give back to the community. This topic has been an active question and discussion for longer than I have been around. At the end, we should collaborate on a separate thread to highlight.

Yes there is a lot of info here that needs condensed.

I really hope you are right on the hinges , my bushing is missing now and the door has issues closing properly.
I did the oem horn . It lasted like 12 months and some honks . Right after the warranty ran out I hit the horn and it went meep mer... and stoped working. For a few months it would work one honk and then only the relay. I have a used unit on it now .

My drivers door lines up perfectly. It should be a pretty safe bet.

I ordered the 98-01 integra every other model .