LSD Talk - Which MTF for Clutch Style & Helical LSD?

[coolhandluke]

I'm going back to a clutch-style LSD and I'm researching which MTF are generally approved. I previously ran an ATS Carbon clutch style with Motul MTF.


Fluid Recommendations: (Work in progress as I research)

Section 1 - Clutch Style LSD's
ATS Metal Type D20 + D24 + ATS Type Carbon
-A.S.H 250R 85W 140
-A.S.H FSE E spec 75W 140
-BP X9140S 80W 140
-BP X9118S 75W 90
-Estremo 80W 140
-Motul 75W 140
-Motul 75W 90
-Newtech UW76 75W 140
-Neo Hi proof shock 75W 140
-Neo RHD 75W 90
-Oberon F-808 75W 140
-Oberon F-808 mineral 85W 140
-Omega 690 85W 140
-Omega 690 75W 250
-Omega 690 75W 90
-Redline 80W 140
-RESPO Le Mans 80W 140
-REPSOL 80W 140
-Subaru Stock 90W
-Sunoco 80W 140
-TOTAL Pro R 75W 140
-WAKO'S HG140R 80W 140
-WAKO'S HG250R 80W 250
Reference: ATS Carbon LSD Upgrade

Q: Do I have to change LSD oil more frequently for the carbon LSD?

A: No. The recommended oil change interval is the same for ATS metal LSD and ATS carbon LSD. The carbon LSD went through a major upgrade in 2007 and after the improvement, the oil change is recommended every 2,000 to 3,000 miles which is same for the metal LSD. ATS carbon LSD upgrade - click for the page

Cusco Type-RS (Metal)
More: Cusco LSD Guide

-Cusco Mission*

Cusco LSD Oil Change Interval
We recommend changing LSD oil following an interval;
- After brake in the new LSD = 500 miles
- 1st LSD oil change = 3,000 miles
- 2nd LSD oil change = 10,000 miles
- Regular LSD oil change = Every 10,000 miles

MFactory Metal Plate LSD:
-Motul PA90
-Torco RTF + Torco Friction Modifier*

Mugen Metal Plate LSD
-TBD

OS Giken SuperLock
More: OS Giken - Using the Right Gear Oil and OS 250R
-Motul Competition FF 75W 140*
-Motul Gear 300 75W90 for W2W racing
Note: OS Giken does not recommend OS-250R Gear Oil, PN OS011-KA1, for FWD applications.

Break-in fluid change interval:
-First track day or first 500-1000mi

Then:
-Every 4x track days or 10,000 mi

More:
-If fluid comes out clean at 10,000, considering extending
-If fluid comes out dirty at 10,000, consider reducing

Spoon Metal LSD
-TBD

*MFG recommended



Reference - Model Numbers

ATS Carbon
1.5 way Spec 4
DC2/EK9: CHFB87F32T
EP3/DC5: CHFB87F52T
FD2/CL7: CHFB87F92T

1.5 way Spec 5
DC2/EK9: CHFB87E32T
DC5/EP3: CHFB87E52T
FD2/CL7: CHFB87E92T

2 way Spec 4
DC2/EK9: CHFA87F32T
DC5/EP3: CHFA87F52T
FD2/CL7: CHFA87F92T

2 way Spec 5
DC2/EK9: CHFA87E32T
DC5/EP3: CHFA87E52T
FD2/CL7: CHFA87E92T

Reference - How to understand ATS part numbers:
http://ppi-ats.com/ATS%20productcode_LSD550.jpg

The last two digits specify the carbon / metal ratio of the LSD. Example, CHFB8732HB28 (carbon hybrid for DC2) has the 2 carbon discs (w/ inner edge) and 8 metal discs (w/ inner edge). CHFB8732HB46 has 4 carbon discs and 6 metal discs. Note: The side bearing for the DC5 (91005-PPS-003) is required for DC2 and EK9.
More:
-Full datasheet - Integra
-Full datasheet - Civic


MFactory
1.0 Way Metal Plate LSD
DC2: MF-TRS-10B18
DC5: MF-TRS-10K20

1.0/1.5 Way Metal Plate LSD
DC2: MF-TRS-10B18A
DC5: MF-TRS-10K20A

1.5/2.0 Way Metal Plate LSD
DC2: MF-TRS-10B18B
DC5: MF-TRS-10K20B

v2 Metal Plate LSD
DC2: MF-TRS-10B18C
DC5: MF-TRS-10K20C

Mugen
-TBD


OS Giken Super Lock
DC2: HA052-HA
DC5: HA081-HA
FK8: HA082-HA


Spoon
-TBD


Section 2 - Helical LSDs

OEM ITR:
Recommended MTF's:
-Amsoil
-GM Synchromesh FM
-Torco MTF
-Torco RTF *Can be mixed with Torco MTF 50/50

MFactory
Recommended MTF's:
-Amsoil
-Torco MTF
-Torco RTF *Can be mixed with Torco MTF 50/50




Change Log:
-7/9/20 - Added Helical information under Section 2

[DC2Iggy]

I've got a Cusco Type-RS set to 1 way right now ( I believe) and I too was looking into fluid replacement options last year. Contacted Cusco USA and of course they recommended that I get the "Cusco Mission" fluid and that anything else will ruin the clutch pack. Not sure how accurate that is but I didn't want to risk it so I ordered a few liters of the stuff at like $50/L.

It seems the most commonly used fluid for clutch type lsds is the Torco RTF + Friction Modifier and I've seen a few people recommend amsoil with their friction modifier as well.

[coolhandluke]

Oh excellent point, you are reminding me to add Cusco, Mugen, Spoon, and other clutch style LSD's to the list.

[Aquafina]

I've got a Cusco Type-RS set to 1 way right now ( I believe) and I too was looking into fluid replacement options last year. Contacted Cusco USA and of course they recommended that I get the "Cusco Mission" fluid and that anything else will ruin the clutch pack.

Not accurate. There is nothing special about the clutch packs in the Cusco so you can run any fluid you want.

[DC2Iggy]

I've got a Cusco Type-RS set to 1 way right now ( I believe) and I too was looking into fluid replacement options last year. Contacted Cusco USA and of course they recommended that I get the "Cusco Mission" fluid and that anything else will ruin the clutch pack.

Not accurate. There is nothing special about the clutch packs in the Cusco so you can run any fluid you want.

That is what I figured. I'm sure the same can be said for most manufacturers.

[coolhandluke]

I've got a Cusco Type-RS set to 1 way right now ( I believe) and I too was looking into fluid replacement options last year. Contacted Cusco USA and of course they recommended that I get the "Cusco Mission" fluid and that anything else will ruin the clutch pack.

Not accurate. There is nothing special about the clutch packs in the Cusco so you can run any fluid you want.

That is what I figured. I'm sure the same can be said for most manufacturers.

This is precisely what I want to help document. This will help myself and others running or researching prior to upgrading to a clutch style LSD.

I also need to research FK8 options, as I have only found a handful atm.


Aquafina - Given your transmission knowledge, which fluids would you expand on, you can run any fluid you want...

[Little_Nolan]

Ryan, for what its worth... I ran Torco/Synchrotech MTF with Torco Friction modifier Type F with no issues and it seemed to function fine, before the Synchrotech stuff came out Honda and Torco was used with the friction modifier.. Trans still works fine and was assembled in 2004ish.

Trans is a 1990 CRX Si trans with Kaaz LSD.

[Aquafina]

Aquafina - Given your transmission knowledge, which fluids would you expand on, you can run any fluid you want...

You can run any fluid that is the proper viscosity for Honda's (10W-30 equivalent) and safe for yellow metals (GL-4, GL-5, GL-6).

With a clutch type LSD you will need to change the fluid more frequently. I recommend 7k miles for open diff or helical LSD and 3-5k for clutch type LSD. Those are both street mile figures. Track days will reduce those numbers.

Running a FM will extend the service life of the fluid and the clutch plates. I prefer a fluid not specific to clutch type LSD's and adding a FM in. This way you can tailor the amount to your liking (for comfort while turning or performance behavior). Adding in FM you can start with a small amount and go from there. FM must be a Type F.

[hondarcb]

For what it’s worth, myself and 3-4 other racers are using Motul Gear 300 75W90 with the OS Giken. Most have been for a few years. Myself just starting this year with the switch to the Giken. All B series cars.

[Dave7CDMTYPER]

Would this be the right thread to also list recommendations for oem LSD fluids?