Looks like I need to get it out more though . Nearly 5 years since the block and trans were delivered and still breaking in.
DEC 29th, 2016
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
Re: Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
Always feels great to get a good report card.
Looks like I need to get it out more though . Nearly 5 years since the block and trans were delivered and still breaking in.
DEC 29th, 2016
Looks like I need to get it out more though . Nearly 5 years since the block and trans were delivered and still breaking in.
DEC 29th, 2016
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
When getting a tune with the JRSC you run into an issue that the OEM MAP sensor at the TB doesn’t see boost since it’s before the supercharger.
For Kseries there’s a cool spacer that lifts the map sensor up, blocks off the TB port and provides a nipple to attach a line from the manifold. If such an adapter exists for the bseries map I’ve not been able to find it.
Looking through Hondata references I found that Hondata allows for pulling a signal from a non-oem absolute pressure sensor. I had already added an AEM pressure sensor so I could read manifold pressure on the RaceCapture unit, I just had to modify the wiring. As much as the evidence suggests otherwise I really don’t like to cut factory harnesses.
I try to find reversible solutions:
Separated then Cut an eBay map sensor
Soldered a section of a spare harness
Voila Honda OBD2 MAP to Adelphi/AEM sensor jumper
For Kseries there’s a cool spacer that lifts the map sensor up, blocks off the TB port and provides a nipple to attach a line from the manifold. If such an adapter exists for the bseries map I’ve not been able to find it.
Looking through Hondata references I found that Hondata allows for pulling a signal from a non-oem absolute pressure sensor. I had already added an AEM pressure sensor so I could read manifold pressure on the RaceCapture unit, I just had to modify the wiring. As much as the evidence suggests otherwise I really don’t like to cut factory harnesses.
I try to find reversible solutions:
Separated then Cut an eBay map sensor
Soldered a section of a spare harness
Voila Honda OBD2 MAP to Adelphi/AEM sensor jumper
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
So I’d put it off for a while but post the Willow Springs trip I changed out the Redline Race oil and filter. Sent another sample off and bought a filter cutter so I could inspect the media. So today I actually cracked the filter open.
Careful what you ask for right
This is what the oil I squeezed out of the media looks like. Clearly has a lot of what looks like metal particulate.
Additionally here’s a shot of the media itself containing visible specks.
When run the other day the motor felt happy so it might be possible, as the outing represents the hardest and longest the motor has been pushed, that this is simply evidence the motor is wearing in.
But it’s also a common indicator or a spun bearing. Normally this is reported with knock and low oil pressure. I’ve not had oil pressure issues and haven’t heard anything I would attribute to rod knock though I’m not sure I could necessarily identify if early.
Not really sure what to do from here but may take it to someone to have inspected. No point in proceeding with s300 and tune until I’m sure the motor is healthy.
Careful what you ask for right
This is what the oil I squeezed out of the media looks like. Clearly has a lot of what looks like metal particulate.
Additionally here’s a shot of the media itself containing visible specks.
When run the other day the motor felt happy so it might be possible, as the outing represents the hardest and longest the motor has been pushed, that this is simply evidence the motor is wearing in.
But it’s also a common indicator or a spun bearing. Normally this is reported with knock and low oil pressure. I’ve not had oil pressure issues and haven’t heard anything I would attribute to rod knock though I’m not sure I could necessarily identify if early.
Not really sure what to do from here but may take it to someone to have inspected. No point in proceeding with s300 and tune until I’m sure the motor is healthy.
Last edited by aklackner on Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
I had forgotten that I still had the filter that I pulled from the interval of the report I posted above. I opened that and it looks basically the same.
I’m still not sure if this makes me feel better, aligns with the idea the motor is still breaking in, or just indicates that an issue has been present longer term.
I am running Skunk2 tuner stage 1 cams, I’ve heard these may wear rapidly so this could be a factor here.
I also do see at least some of the material is more grey similar to the jrsc rotor coating which does wear as well so that’s likely at least part of the source
I’m still not sure if this makes me feel better, aligns with the idea the motor is still breaking in, or just indicates that an issue has been present longer term.
I am running Skunk2 tuner stage 1 cams, I’ve heard these may wear rapidly so this could be a factor here.
I also do see at least some of the material is more grey similar to the jrsc rotor coating which does wear as well so that’s likely at least part of the source
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
After sleeping on it here’s where I’m at:
Last night I checked the filter media with a neodymium magnet in a ziplock baggie. While a small amount of particles ended up on the baggie these appeared more to be sticking in the oil and didn’t move with the magnet. This seems to indicate non-ferrous metal. = Aluminum, copper, tin, lead, molybdenum. The particles don’t appear to be copper colored. The oil report didn’t indicate presence of aluminum but did indicate high levels of copper and Moly. Since Moly is both silver and non-magnetic this leads me to believe what’s present in the oil is something shedding a moly based coating, possibly the supercharger. This is very good news.
Additionally:
I already had plans in flight to swap to OEM camshafts. I have a JDM ITR set and a GSR intake cam headed my way. The GSR in./ITR ex. Combo minimizes valve overlap in Vtec (~15deg. Vs tuner’s 50deg.). Data logging seems to support I was only really making boost out of Vtec. For safety I also already had a GReddy timing belt on order. This will all require pulling all the belts off getting into the head so I can inspect cam journals while I’m at it.
I also have a billet s-tube from the recent LHT run waiting to go in. I’d need to pull the blower to install. This means getting hoses and such out of the way so coolant will need to be drained.
When I mounted the supercharger I was unable to install the rear support bar since the alternator mount didn’t seem appropriately threaded. So it’s been on the wishlist to pull the Alt. bracket and address. I’m also still toying with swapping in the (~9psi) stepper pulley I have sitting on the shelf. This means at least pulling out the alternator and bracket.
While the car is up it’s pretty trivial to drop the oil pan and clear access to inspect for any rod play which will verify if there is a bearing issue. I can also inspect the oil pick up/screen and pan for evidence of larger particles.
Last night I checked the filter media with a neodymium magnet in a ziplock baggie. While a small amount of particles ended up on the baggie these appeared more to be sticking in the oil and didn’t move with the magnet. This seems to indicate non-ferrous metal. = Aluminum, copper, tin, lead, molybdenum. The particles don’t appear to be copper colored. The oil report didn’t indicate presence of aluminum but did indicate high levels of copper and Moly. Since Moly is both silver and non-magnetic this leads me to believe what’s present in the oil is something shedding a moly based coating, possibly the supercharger. This is very good news.
Additionally:
I already had plans in flight to swap to OEM camshafts. I have a JDM ITR set and a GSR intake cam headed my way. The GSR in./ITR ex. Combo minimizes valve overlap in Vtec (~15deg. Vs tuner’s 50deg.). Data logging seems to support I was only really making boost out of Vtec. For safety I also already had a GReddy timing belt on order. This will all require pulling all the belts off getting into the head so I can inspect cam journals while I’m at it.
I also have a billet s-tube from the recent LHT run waiting to go in. I’d need to pull the blower to install. This means getting hoses and such out of the way so coolant will need to be drained.
When I mounted the supercharger I was unable to install the rear support bar since the alternator mount didn’t seem appropriately threaded. So it’s been on the wishlist to pull the Alt. bracket and address. I’m also still toying with swapping in the (~9psi) stepper pulley I have sitting on the shelf. This means at least pulling out the alternator and bracket.
While the car is up it’s pretty trivial to drop the oil pan and clear access to inspect for any rod play which will verify if there is a bearing issue. I can also inspect the oil pick up/screen and pan for evidence of larger particles.
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
I ran a quick piston play test this evening. Basically it goes, you pull the plugs then spin the motor so a piston is on the down stroke. Then use a long socket extension to push sharply down on the piston through the spark plug well. If there’s rod bearing play the piston should drop some and you should hear a metallic scraping, repeat for each piston.
Happily there was 0 movement (I ran each piston twice and used a mark on the socket extension against the top of the spark plug well to gauge as accurately as possible).
This certainly doesn’t conclusively confirm the metal isn’t from the rod or other bearings though if you do have movement you positively have rod bearing damage. Combined with strong oil pressure I feel like it does continue to shape a narrative that the bottom end isn’t the likely source.
If I’m ultimately unable to positively determine the source of the metal I’ll have to continue short oil intervals to monitor the oil and filter for changes
Happily there was 0 movement (I ran each piston twice and used a mark on the socket extension against the top of the spark plug well to gauge as accurately as possible).
This certainly doesn’t conclusively confirm the metal isn’t from the rod or other bearings though if you do have movement you positively have rod bearing damage. Combined with strong oil pressure I feel like it does continue to shape a narrative that the bottom end isn’t the likely source.
If I’m ultimately unable to positively determine the source of the metal I’ll have to continue short oil intervals to monitor the oil and filter for changes
Re: Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
Your engine is just going through the normal break in process.. minimal non ferrous materials coming from piston skirts and minimal ferrous materials coming from piston rings seating in the cylinder hone.
Re: Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
DC231 wrote:Your engine is just going through the normal break in process.. minimal non ferrous materials coming from piston skirts and minimal ferrous materials coming from piston rings seating in the cylinder hone.
Blackstone also got back to me this morning and said the same thing. If I start seeing an increase in metals then it might be a concern.
I found out they do filter analysis too (for an additional $75) so I think I’ll send them the filter media next interval I do. Oil analysis really only focuses on microscopic particles so filter analysis feels like a relatively inexpensive way to cover basis when changes are observed.
Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
It’s a drippy day here in LA but to brighten the day my set of PCI UCA blocks arrived with upgraded bearings from Kingpin!
So smooth and no need to send in your blocks he can get them directly from PCI so you don’t have down time.
These will be going in with fresh JIS m10x1.25 16mm 10.9 bolts, which have a 14mm head and allow better clearance to tighten/loosen for adjustment than the m10 standard hex head bolts that came on my arms.
So smooth and no need to send in your blocks he can get them directly from PCI so you don’t have down time.
These will be going in with fresh JIS m10x1.25 16mm 10.9 bolts, which have a 14mm head and allow better clearance to tighten/loosen for adjustment than the m10 standard hex head bolts that came on my arms.
Re: Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….
damn what a crazy week for updates! i hope the engine material is just normal break in stuff. how many oil changes have you done? lets hope its just break in stuff. and the pci upgrades, whats different vs stock pci spherical bushings?
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