Brake Pads Discussion

[DC2Iggy]

I've noticed there were street/track brake rotor and suspension threads but nothing for brake pads so I thought I'd start the discussion. As I'm looking to track my ITR (autocross/hot laps/hpde) I was hoping I could get some brake pad recommendations from those that have tracked theirs. I figure the information should be fresh as many did attend the ITR Expo recently.

On my old GSR I ran the Hawk HPS pads in the front and just some cheapo pads in the rear. Both were on blank rotors. I liked the HPS as a dual purpose pad but it sounds like they are not meant to handle high heat for long periods of time and thus would be a poor choice for lapping. The GSR never saw any lapping days and was strictly for daily driving/autocross. A friend of mine has ran the Hawk HP+ pads in his B18C swapped EG Hatch and said they do okay on the track. The forums seem to recommend the HP+ as well as a number of dedicated track pads, which I have had zero experience with.

I'm currently leaning towards getting the Hawk HPS for daily driving and autocross and picking up a set of the Hawk HP+ for lapping days. If there is a better dedicated track pad out there that others have used and found to be a great fit for the platform I would to get some feedback. What are some of the more common combinations of pads for front/rear?

Our local track is only 1.3 miles long with 8-10 turns but enough to give the brakes a good workout.

Other items that will be installed at the same time are Goodridge SS Brake Lines, ATE Type 200 brake fluid, and extreme summer performance tires (RE-71R or similar). I've ran this on my STI and liked how it felt so I'd like to do the same to the ITR.

Thanks,
Igor

[RTW DC2R]

I havent used too many pad combos but have done a lot of track days. The HP+ is a good starter pad but depending how hard you are on brakes and how sticky your tires are, you could get them pretty hot. I forget what they are rated at but Hawks website should have a break down of the temp ranges for their pads.

The 71R is an excellent track day tire (and really good in the rain too). I recently switched from the 71R to an Rcomp and the grip levels were surprisingly similar. They can start to fall off though once they get pretty hot and/or too many heat cycles. Higher grip will be harder on your pads.

I am currently running the Hawk HT10 and am very happy with them. They do not have that initial hard bite that a lot of track pads have so its a little easier to modulate the pedal for me. But thats all user preference. I dont like the hard initial bite some pads have as it seems to make my car a bit unstable. The HT10 can also make the pedal feel a bit softer since you are probably going to use more of the pedal range for the linear bite.

Ive always used stock rear pads and see no need to change them unless I decide to go with a more aggressive pad up front.

Another think to consider is pad dust. The Hawk pads tend to dust like crazy and can be corrosive if you do not wash it off. Ive heard the Carbotech pads are more dust friendly and/or not as corrosive. I have looked into the XP series from Carbotech but have not yet tried them out.

[Sort of Fast]

I run HP+ in the back and a DTC 60 front. With the DTC 60/70 or Carbotech xp10's you will have 0 fade and will feel consistent all day. Street pads like HP+ or EBC yellow in the front calipers will fall off and grease over (depending on how hard you're pushing).

[DC2Iggy]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have yet to lap a lighter car. My STI had the factory Brembos and they seemed to have held out fine. I am more aggressive on the breaks than I should be I think because the last few laps with the STI I came into the pits with smoking brakes.

Since it's a lighter car, I'm assuming it won't see as high of brake temperatures. The dtc-60s seem to have an optimal range of 700-1100 degrees. Does an ITR see temperatures this high or would something like the dtc-30 be sufficient. I'm almost tempted the to try something less aggressive until I get a feel for the car and then move up.

Brake dust isn't a huge deal. Our autocross track involves a 10 minute drive down a gravel road and the closest road race track is an hour away so a post race car wash is mandatory.

[Sort of Fast]

I'm uncertain of the actual temp they get to, but rotors get hot quick regardless...especially since there's no factory ducting. It's a light car, but the front wheels are doing 80%+ of the work and to be fair the rotors/pads are not that big. Most H2/H1 cars run brake ducts even with a Wilwood Fastbrake kit, but that is doing W2W and they stay on track longer. Road course events you'll just want to look for a consistent feel. Good bite, not too aggressive to lock too fast, and no fade. You'll just want to make sure it pairs well with the tire you're running. RE71R's have a lot of grip too. Autocross you could run whatever pad though. It's slow enough to not matter a whole lot unless you're taking it really seriously. I just run some bs autozone pad for daily use in the front on my ITR. I've autocrossed on them several times with no issues while keeping the HP+ in the back. I haven't changed the rear pads in 3 years.

[g3teg97]

so its a little easier to modulate the pedal for me.

Could you elaborate on that? Specifically "modulate."

[RTW DC2R]

so its a little easier to modulate the pedal for me.

Could you elaborate on that? Specifically "modulate."

Sure. First off, Im no expert, this is just my impression from experience.

Some track pad compounds have a quick initial bite, meaning you hardly have to touch the brake pedal and the pad will bite pretty hard. And you dont need to press the pedal much harder to get more clamping force. You get instant braking and response from the pad which isnt a bad thing. Personally I just do not like the way that feels on track. Its too abrupt for me.

A pad like the HT10 has less initial bite when first touching the pedal. Its a more linear bite across the pedal and temperature range. So I feel like I can control braking better based on how hard I am applying the pedal (modulating it). The harder I press the pedal, the more it bites. Because of this, it feels like you get more range of use out of the brake pedal (for me anyway).

I tend to trail brake a lot as well, and an aggressive initial bite makes that a little more hairy IMO.

[g3teg97]

That seems to make some sense.

With your pads, you have to press the pedal more, but you get more braking force the more you press it?

I think my dliema is that with high initial bite, it gives me confidence in the braking power. Whereas maybe the other way doesn't as much since you press the pedal more.

Guess the only way is to bring extra pads to the track and swap them out between sessions to see how it is.

[coolhandluke]

Thank you for providing use case and setup information. There has been solid input thus far. Here is my experience:

Hawk:
-HT10's F / HP+ R, HS3/HS4's and NT01's
-DTC30 F / HP+ R, HS3 and NT01's
-DTC60 F / DTC30 R, street tires (wet) and NT01's

The Hawk's above are also capable of being street driven, although it burns pricey pads during street miles.

Overall, the HT10's have been my preferred pad and what I ran prior to the BBK. The DTC's offered a higher temperature range, but less modulation. Due to my poor braking habits, the DTC's ultimately built up more temperature into the braking system.

RTW noted the modulation benefits. Pads that allow you to press harder for more bite, versus other pads that quickly lock.

[DC2Iggy]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm tempted to get a set of HP+s and boot around the track on those until I get familiar with the car and then step up to a set of actual track pads. I guess my driving style will also dictate which pad will work for me. I was pretty hard on the brakes in my STI so maybe stepping up to a mid/high torque pad would be a better option instead of the low torque HP+.

Decisions, decisions.