Doug Demuro reviews an ITR

[Sort of Fast]

It's pretty good. Fair play to him for looking for "quirks and features" as our cars are pretty basic. He seemed to enjoy driving it anyway. Though he reckons the S2000 is better in every way. I'd not agree with him there. I've had an S2000 and it's a bloody great car, but I found it lacking in a few areas. At the limit it's far less accessible and could get you into trouble(well me. My driving talent runs out in a pedal car ) and Honda never made an S2000 Type R, which for me says something.

He reckoned a Ford Fiesta ST had better steering feel, but I've driven one(and the Focus) pretty extensively and I call shenanigans on that. It's the usual modern car electric steering linear vibe and doesn't come close to the feedback of something like the Integra. Yes the Teg is pretty vague around the straight ahead position, but under load the damn thing starts talking to you. In my case my poor jalopy is usually saying "slow down you crosseyed talentless moron!! Please, sell me to someone who can drive. Or a granny that drives to the shops at 20 MPH. . Then again Doug is more a modern car type of chap in that regard, so I understand where he's coming from.

Actually, that's one thing consistent in many R reviews. They always compare it to the latest hot hatches and mid range sporty cars. The fact that they do and can, that says a lot for a car that's over 20 years old as a design. On something like a twisty autocross course I'd be very confident I'd beat cars like the Fiesta or Focus. And like I say I'm not a great driver.

There's a lad on Youtube by the name of Miroshi https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGsxX ... YfVqvyERLQ who I'm sure you guys know as one of the best resources on the Teg R out there. He competes in Autocross and wins on the regular. And if I may respectfully quote him:

"The Type R version is very good, even after 20 years, it's still very fast on smaller tracks or autox, in fact I've never seen anything faster, even the praised modern counterpart like Renault Megane RS with European autox champion behind the steering wheel couldn't run faster lap times then me and my friend in 20 years old ITRs."

That's little short of amazing for such an "old" car.

The problem with your logic is all of the above cars listed are in fact very competitive and much faster than a simple stock OEM ITR...even when compared stock to stock. Add to the fact that if they were all on the same tire compound the ITR would lose hands down. Even Best Motoring vids the S2k's ran rings around the ITRs until the DC5, or FD2 packed a bigger punch with the K20 and a more refined chassis. I have several friends that compete with all of the cars you mentioned in GridLife and GTA sereis and even slightly modified they're much faster than my track prepped ITR. Hell the fastest S2k on street tires hit 1:38s at Road Atlanta with a stock motor. That's faster than the current H2 record set by a friend of mine with an ITR on slicks. I knew this review would make people here upset...lol. That Miroshi guy competes in a very low entry autocross with little competition. There is a reason lightweight FF's such as the CRX, EF, and EG's do so well in autocross nationals because they don't weigh anything and it still to this day doesn't take much to make them handle well.

[RTW DC2R]

Why are we comparing ITRs to S2Ks in the first place. The only similarity is they are made by Honda. Even comparing to DC5 ITR or FD2+ CTRs is a reach. Every car mentioned should be faster with modern technology, larger engines, more power, fat tires, huge brakes, etc. Doesnt change the fact that every single track day I attend, people always come over to check the car out to see what its all about. Most people have usually heard about the ITR but you find fewer and fewer at track events these days so most people have never experienced one riding their ass or passing them on track. For a 20yr old econobox the car is fantastic.

Are there better cars out there? Of course. But they dont make them like they used to which is what makes the ITR so awesome.

[touringteg]

I liked the review. I could have done without the guide to stealing an ITR for all the thieves out there.

As a side note a friend with modified AP2 always destroys my ITR at autox and lapping days. I sometimes beat him at pax. My other friend with a Fiesta ST cant even get close to my autox times with Falken Azenis 615. I am on re71r and near stock.

Doesn't matter though. The ITR is just a blast to race and own. There will always be a better and faster car.

[Wibbs]

Why are we comparing ITRs to S2Ks in the first place. The only similarity is they are made by Honda. Even comparing to DC5 ITR or FD2+ CTRs is a reach. Every car mentioned should be faster with modern technology, larger engines, more power, fat tires, huge brakes, etc.

Exactly RTW. The fact that a near 30 year old chassis design is even compared to current stuff says much about what they got right back then. S2000 comparison? I never said it wasn't a faster car, I did say it's a bloody great car but for me I found it much less forgiving at the limit. It's a very pretty car too and very nicely bolted together. IMHO the s2000 is one of the nicest looking roadsters made in decades, by anyone. I stand by my take on the Fiesta ST steering feel though.

Are there better cars out there? Of course. But they dont make them like they used to which is what makes the ITR so awesome.

And they can't make them like they used to. An ITR wouldn't get within an asses roar of passing the current regulations of today. And more, it wouldn't pass the requirements and expectations of the current buyer either. Cars have come on in leaps and bounds in so many respects. Now you can get the "road racer" performance at the flick of a switch with all the usual luxuries people are used to in any other car. That brings its own issues too of course. The bloat goes up for a start. As Doug noted older cars had more airy cabins and more visibility, because of the impact of current design/lack of airbags. There's much more going on with IT getting between the driver and the road too and with more and more of that going on, old style "feel" is either lacking or artificial. When cars started to pipe in fake engine notes into the cabin you knew things were changing.

Another point he made I agree 100% with. The ITR is one of those cars that's quick enough to have a blast in, but not so crazy fast that it can get you into trouble on the public road the way some of its modern counterparts can. There's more room to play around in. A few years back I spent a day in a Ferrari 360(dunno the exact model, but it had various factory upgrades and extra carbon bits and bobs. And extra stickers, which add BHP...). Fantastic car as you'd expect, but if I owned one I'd park it, then just march myself to the local police station and get them to set fire to my driving licence, to save their time and mine.

[Sort of Fast]

Why are we comparing ITRs to S2Ks in the first place. The only similarity is they are made by Honda. Even comparing to DC5 ITR or FD2+ CTRs is a reach. Every car mentioned should be faster with modern technology, larger engines, more power, fat tires, huge brakes, etc. Doesnt change the fact that every single track day I attend, people always come over to check the car out to see what its all about. Most people have usually heard about the ITR but you find fewer and fewer at track events these days so most people have never experienced one riding their ass or passing them on track. For a 20yr old econobox the car is fantastic.

Are there better cars out there? Of course. But they dont make them like they used to which is what makes the ITR so awesome.

I agree in many respects that they don't make them like they used to. The newer cars to me are a bit too boring with lots of unnecessary luxuries. That applies to pretty much all car manufacturers nowadays. I had pretty much identical experience in my 92 Civic that I do with my current ITR as both were modified in a similar manner. I had many come up to me at HPDE wondering what was powering it only to see it was a stock B18c1 with 160hp. I think the main difference is I'm far more biased to the looks of the JDM front Integra. That's really the only reason I love the car more...not really due to the way it drives. For me at the end of the day, and I think many here would at least agree that's it's far more fun to catch someone in an underpowered, less expensive car. That's really to me what the car (or any well built Honda) is all about.

[Dave7CDMTYPER]

I sold my s2k to get my ITR. I'm so much happier with the R, it feels way more special.

[Stin1]

I love the itr. I like the s2k . My brother's s2k wasn't exactly what I would call Honda reliable. Every once in a while we see it and he doesn't have anything positive to say about the car because of that. I no longer want one. It was a fun car it just didn't hit me with the same spell that I have for the Integra type R.

[Brand0n]

I love the itr. I like the s2k . My brother's s2k wasn't exactly what I would call Honda reliable. Every once in a while we see it and he doesn't have anything positive to say about the car because of that. I no longer want one. It was a fun car it just didn't hit me with the same spell that I have for the Integra type R.

Curious as to what year and what went wrong with his? I never had any problems with the ones I have owned. Other than the rear diff I of my ap1 that I replaced before it could go bad.

[Dave7CDMTYPER]

My s2k ran great and felt totally honda reliable FWIW. No issues in that regard.

[aklackner]

OEM S2k Valve guides = new valve seats