Dumb, Stubborn, and bound to end up penniless…….

aw614 · Post by **aw614** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:26 am

Valve lash too tight? The last time I had a throttle stutter the valve lash was too tight and made things from 5k to 6k rpm break up under throttle.

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:00 am

Thanks, I’ll check that out. I was pretty careful when I set it up but with all the vibration it’s certainly something to recheck.

noahf · Post by **noahf** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:51 pm

looks like a successful weekend, even with the backing off on the second day. i need to get motivated and get the CTR going so i can meet you out there.

are you sure its not a tune related issue? My friend who had my 98 itr before me was having weird isssues with his supercharged k20 and it ended up being an electrical issue with the injectors (the injector "adapter harnesses" we causing a short.) But it could also be fueling issues at partial throttle not being fully dialed in.

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:15 pm

The amazing and stupid thing is that all of this has been on the stock ecu and definitely not an ideal tune! It’s all the jrsc rising rate and IAT work around for fueling and still no CELs.

The performance did fall off so something was changing. I think the edelbrock TB is at least part of the story, as is pulling 5 degrees of timing (to 9 before tdc) per JRSC carb setup. I have also noticed that sometimes I’ll check fuel pressure when it’s been shut down and find it has fallen to 0 instead of holding pressure which could indicate a sticking or failing injector or as you’ve called out an issue with the wiring. Thinking more about injector failure sounds more and more likely given extended time at extreme fuel pressure due to rising rate fpr.

I’ll do some initial investigation, correct several things, and get it in the hands of a qualified specialist for peace of mind before it’s out on the track again.

At the very least I’ve learned I have both sufficient power and an incredible power band that I don’t feel a desire to increase boost beyond a peak of 6psi. I do love the broadened power band the blower brings at least until my driving improves (a lot). Once I have the motor running healthy again I’ll make he move to the s300 so I’ll have an optimized tune and more integrated data acquisition than I’m able to achieve from the RaceCapture alone (I can’t seem to pull data from the oem ecu directly to the RaceCapture).

DC231 · Post by **DC231** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 pm

aklackner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:15 pm The amazing and stupid thing is that all of this has been on the stock ecu and definitely not an ideal tune! It’s all the jrsc rising rate and IAT work around for fueling and still no CELs.

The performance did fall off so something was changing. I think the edelbrock TB is at least part of the story, as is pulling 5 degrees of timing (to 9 before tdc) per JRSC carb setup. I have also noticed that sometimes I’ll check fuel pressure when it’s been shut down and find it has fallen to 0 instead of holding pressure which could indicate a sticking or failing injector or as you’ve called out an issue with the wiring. Thinking more about injector failure sounds more and more likely given extended time at extreme fuel pressure due to rising rate fpr.

I’ll do some initial investigation, correct several things, and get it in the hands of a qualified specialist for peace of mind before it’s out on the track again.

At the very least I’ve learned I have both sufficient power and an incredible power band that I don’t feel a desire to increase boost beyond a peak of 6psi. I do love the broadened power band the blower brings at least until my driving improves (a lot). Once I have the motor running healthy again I’ll make he move to the s300 so I’ll have an optimized tune and more integrated data acquisition than I’m able to achieve from the RaceCapture alone (I can’t seem to pull data from the oem ecu directly to the RaceCapture).

You need a real tune for your setup... it will most likely have small issues like that until then. Back in the day before tuning was an option there was always an issue with studders and break ups while boosted. not to mention your car is going to change characteristics dramatically when it is tuned properly and is going to change the way it feels to you. Another thing is not being able to live datalog... you could easily run lean and not notice because you are too busy driving to constantly look at the guage. I would personally be weary of running that thing to hard on a stock ecu with boost..

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:23 pm

DC231 wrote: You need a real tune for your setup... it will most likely have small issues like that until then. Back in the day before tuning was an option there was always an issue with studders and break ups while boosted. not to mention your car is going to change characteristics dramatically when it is tuned properly and is going to change the way it feels to you. Another thing is not being able to live datalog... you could easily run lean and not notice because you are too busy driving to constantly look at the guage. I would personally be weary of running that thing to hard on a stock ecu with boost..

100% agree.
At my skill level it’s all I can do to try to relax and try to pay attention to where I’m at, and try to catch some of what the car is communicating of the road to me.

I had actually set up for my phone as an extended dash with some standalone monitoring (oil temp, oil pressure, vac/boost) but quickly realized I wasn’t going to be able to watch it in any meaningful way. Once I get data fully integrated I’ll be able to live stream metrics to podium.live, any volunteers for trackday remote pit crew

noahf · Post by **noahf** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:35 pm

no tune?

aw614 · Post by **aw614** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:57 pm

aklackner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:15 pm Once I have the motor running healthy again I’ll make he move to the s300 so I’ll have an optimized tune and more integrated data acquisition than I’m able to achieve from the RaceCapture alone (I can’t seem to pull data from the oem ecu directly to the RaceCapture).

Are you trying to sync a bt obd2 adapter to race capture? Im curious how limited the CAN features are on the stock ecu, but I do recall when I was OBD2b, torque would get sensor output from my ecu. However I do not recall what info outside of the tach working on torque

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:12 pm

noahf wrote:no tune?

Yes it was a risk. The s300 (in p72 for knock protection), RDX injectors, and tune by Shawn Church were always part of the plan. I just couldn’t keep telling myself I’ll get on track once I…

This is by no means an endorsement to run a modified engine without a custom tune. By way of my calculus the reality is my motor isn’t highly modified, primarily it’s just the jrsc kit. In carb form the highest I’ve captured is 6psi so even it’s comparable pretty minimal (which is as intended), has a LOT of fuel thrown at it via several means (stock map, IAT workaround, rising rate fpr), reduced timing, and conservative shift light (green 5k, yellow 7k, red above 8). Most of this is due to kit development prior to programmable ecus (actually a very cool story from the developer I got first hand at Homecoming). With the ecu’s knock detection, upgraded cooling, and monitoring I implemented I felt the risk was sufficiently managed even though there was a lot of power left on the table.

If something more significant comes of the experience I’m prepared to accept the consequences and embrace as a learning experience.

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:18 pm

aw614 wrote:
aklackner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:15 pm Once I have the motor running healthy again I’ll make he move to the s300 so I’ll have an optimized tune and more integrated data acquisition than I’m able to achieve from the RaceCapture alone (I can’t seem to pull data from the oem ecu directly to the RaceCapture).
Are you trying to sync a bt obd2 adapter the legacy OBD2 into CAN) to race capture? Im curious how limited the CAN features are on the stock ecu, but I do recall when I was OBD2b, torque would get sensor output from my ecu. However I do not recall what info outside of the tach working on torque

RaceCapture has a legacy OBD2 adapter (which should pass OBD2 on to CAN) but I’ve not had any success getting data, though I can connect the the ecu with no issue using an old OBDlink usb and a laptop to get pretty broad range of monitoring and diagnostics. RaceCapture tries to provide support but is really oriented to more dedicated motorsports applications and DIY so I believe support for the older Honda ECUs just isn’t there (at least not that I’ve seen at this point). An s300 will provide a CAN output via digital outs which I’ll ultimately use to integrate and the PLX wideband supports RS232 so I can either pull direct or via s300 feed.

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