Type R Club of America

aw614 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:30 am

DC231 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:04 pm

aw614 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:03 pm

Tuners should be able to compensation for this I believe on s300 if it has been milled even on stock cam gears?

No. Not b series. Only k series intake cam can do what you are talking about. That's what VTC does. That's why you only see adjustable exhaust cam gear for k series.

It's a physical measurement that's been changed in the 360° rotation of the engine. There's no calibration that can change that..

I'm sure someone could explain it better than me.

Found this video, this is what I meant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvqFcpS5Ig

This is still just ignition timing.

Ignition timing and valve timing are different.

Ignition timing is when the spark is sent.

Valve timing is when the valve starts to open at the exact time it needs to in correlation to the combustion process.

We are speaking of valve timing with the milling of parts and centerline of cams..

Once you mill the block and deck the head you can't even really use a timing light like that until you make your own TDC mark on the pulley because the original timing marks are not exactly right. You have to make your own timing mark because TDC has changed once you do that.

Degreeing the cams in make sure that the valve starts to open at the exact time it should in the 360° rotation of the engine.


Once again, I'm sure someone here can explain it better than me.... Hopefully haha

Thanks for this discussion. I will definitely learn how to degree the cams for valve timing when that "time" comes.

I'm not sure if the machine work I'm getting done qualifies as milling. 4Piston resurfaces the head. And Golden Eagle does the step deck on the block. I asked GE and they said they remove such a small amount of material with step decking that it's still within Honda oem clearances (or whatever that is called).

Man this engine is gonna be epic. I really gotta make sure I assemble correctly. Excited and nervous.

1. One question I have is about bearings (rod and main). I'd like to use new Honda oem bearings (best for me afaik). Should I just follow the color codes on the rods and block? (Which are both at GE right now, so can't check atm.) Or considering the work done, should I have other considerations for bearings? GE told me their work won't affect the bearings I'd be using.

Dave7CDMTYPER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm Thanks for this discussion. I will definitely learn how to degree the cams for valve timing when that "time" comes.

I'm not sure if the machine work I'm getting done qualifies as milling. 4Piston resurfaces the head. And Golden Eagle does the step deck on the block. I asked GE and they said they remove such a small amount of material with step decking that it's still within Honda oem clearances (or whatever that is called).

Man this engine is gonna be epic. I really gotta make sure I assemble correctly. Excited and nervous.

1. One question I have is about bearings (rod and main). I'd like to use new Honda oem bearings (best for me afaik). Should I just follow the color codes on the rods and block? (Which are both at GE right now, so can't check atm.) Or considering the work done, should I have other considerations for bearings? GE told me their work won't affect the bearings I'd be using.

That's correct, the work they will be performing will not affect your bearing choice.

A lot of the OEM bearing choices are discontinued.

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:20 pm

aw614 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:30 am

DC231 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:04 pm
No. Not b series. Only k series intake cam can do what you are talking about. That's what VTC does. That's why you only see adjustable exhaust cam gear for k series.

It's a physical measurement that's been changed in the 360° rotation of the engine. There's no calibration that can change that..

I'm sure someone could explain it better than me.

Found this video, this is what I meant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvqFcpS5Ig

This is still just ignition timing.

Ignition timing and valve timing are different.

Ignition timing is when the spark is sent.

Valve timing is when the valve starts to open at the exact time it needs to in correlation to the combustion process.

We are speaking of valve timing with the milling of parts and centerline of cams..

Once you mill the block and deck the head you can't even really use a timing light like that until you make your own TDC mark on the pulley because the original timing marks are not exactly right. You have to make your own timing mark because TDC has changed once you do that.

Degreeing the cams in make sure that the valve starts to open at the exact time it should in the 360° rotation of the engine.


Once again, I'm sure someone here can explain it better than me.... Hopefully haha

Hey you explained well and the the info is good to have for future reference on the forum. I guess I might be losing horsepower over having a decked head and block lol.

Do ITR cams get close to contact with valve to piston?

I might need to talk to my tuner about getting the cams degreed so its proper again since I do have adjustables.

aw614 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:44 pm

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:20 pm

aw614 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:30 am
Found this video, this is what I meant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvqFcpS5Ig

This is still just ignition timing.

Ignition timing and valve timing are different.

Ignition timing is when the spark is sent.

Valve timing is when the valve starts to open at the exact time it needs to in correlation to the combustion process.

We are speaking of valve timing with the milling of parts and centerline of cams..

Once you mill the block and deck the head you can't even really use a timing light like that until you make your own TDC mark on the pulley because the original timing marks are not exactly right. You have to make your own timing mark because TDC has changed once you do that.

Degreeing the cams in make sure that the valve starts to open at the exact time it should in the 360° rotation of the engine.


Once again, I'm sure someone here can explain it better than me.... Hopefully haha

Hey you explained well and the the info is good to have for future reference on the forum. I guess I might be losing horsepower over having a decked head and block lol.

Do ITR cams get close to contact with valve to piston?

I might need to talk to my tuner about getting the cams degreed so its proper again since I do have adjustables.

Did they make any adjustments when it was tuned?

A good tuner can get them pretty spot on with some adjustments. The tune will tell the tuner what to do. It's def more important on higher lift cams. If you are using ITR cams there are probably no degree specs

DC231 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:13 pm I agree anyone should only mill when necessary.

You are correct that you don't have to. A good tuner will take the time to make adjustments on the gears to see exactly what the engine likes the best in that situation. If you degree them in then there's no need for guess work just set it and forget it..

Yes sir, spend the time to set it and forget it.

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:20 pm
Hey you explained well and the the info is good to have for future reference on the forum. I guess I might be losing horsepower over having a decked head and block lol.

Do ITR cams get close to contact with valve to piston?

I might need to talk to my tuner about getting the cams degreed so its proper again since I do have adjustables.

You wont be kissing that piston anytime soon. Tons of room, unless you aggressively misfhift/drop a valve.

To touch on what DC231 said about ITR cams, they can be degreed but you'd be basically be building your own cam card. The cam centerline is not altered on a stock cam, so when degreeing a stock cam you'd just be double checking the centerline, after milling & decking, they still agree w/ zero aka true TDC.

as for bearings, throw OEM concepts out the window. While they're stout, as mentioned many are out of stock. Next concern, we have never been previewed to any manufacturer change/update/improvement to quality. How/why does that matter? Well, IMO only, it is 20+ yr old technology or process. Why not update, we're updating everything else? King bearing XP blacks are my ultimate favs. Tolerances are 9/10 in spec vs ACL, but ACL race is good as well.

JDMJNKY wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:21 pm
as for bearings, throw OEM concepts out the window. While they're stout, as mentioned many are out of stock. Next concern, we have never been previewed to any manufacturer change/update/improvement to quality. How/why does that matter? Well, IMO only, it is 20+ yr old technology or process. Why not update, we're updating everything else? King bearing XP blacks are my ultimate favs. Tolerances are 9/10 in spec vs ACL, but ACL race is good as well.

Ok thanks! Yea I do want to make a choice on bearings soon. I checked out the King bearings, seem pretty legit. I want bearings that focus on long term reliability, but maybe they all do that I'm not sure. Whatever the best quality is, that's what my gs-r wants.

Scanned a King pamphlet for you if it helps.

JDMJNKY wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm Scanned a King pamphlet for you if it helps.

Thank you very much sir. I read through it. Don't understand all the technical details, but I'm glad to learn a little bit more. Those bearings sound high quality. I just wonder if they or another aftermarket company are able to be better quality than oem.

Dave7CDMTYPER wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:23 pm

JDMJNKY wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm Scanned a King pamphlet for you if it helps.

Thank you very much sir. I read through it. Don't understand all the technical details, but I'm glad to learn a little bit more. Those bearings sound high quality. I just wonder if they or another aftermarket company are able to be better quality than oem.

Here is a good thread on h-t, I guess Daido is the oem for Honda bearings

https://honda-tech.com/forums/engine-ma ... o-3366028/