Type R Club of America

whats the best route for running hondata on the type r's? p28 s300?

If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73. A lot of tuners turn off knock sensors though anyways to eliminate the chances of throwing a code for phantom knock from having stiff or solid mounts.

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73....

That's a good point.

From Hondata's S300 page, I see support for:

Hondata wrote: S300 Supported ECU's: P06, P28, P30, P72, P74, P75

Reference:
https://www.hondata.com/?_route_=s300

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73. A lot of tuners turn off knock sensors though anyways to eliminate the chances of throwing a code for phantom knock from having stiff or solid mounts.

so if i get rid of the knock sensors do i just turn them off through the hondata and thats it? and will it have an effect on anything else if i do?
i was looking at the p28 with the s300 from ha motorsports. is that a good route or should i just use my stock ecu?

TYPE-RP wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:26 am

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73. A lot of tuners turn off knock sensors though anyways to eliminate the chances of throwing a code for phantom knock from having stiff or solid mounts.

so if i get rid of the knock sensors do i just turn them off through the hondata and thats it? and will it have an effect on anything else if i do?...

Yes, one can disable the Knock sensor in Hondata. The P28 does not support Intake Air Bypass (IAB) or Knock, but these may not be large risks. The P72 is preferred if you/your tuner intend to use Knock. I would consult with your tuner if you are unsure on these decisions.

TYPE-RP wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:26 am ...I was looking at the p28 with the s300 from ha motorsports. is that a good route or should i just use my stock ecu?

Help us understand what prompted the project to go to Hondata? That will help us answer your latter question correctly.

well i just wanted to make the most out of my bolt ons. and datalogging purposes as well. and id like to mess with the hondata a little bit because i have another honda that might need hondata in the future. just trying to figure out how i wanna go about my r. i do plan on taking my r to the track

TYPE-RP wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:27 am well i just wanted to make the most out of my bolt ons. and datalogging purposes as well. and id like to mess with the hondata a little bit because i have another honda that might need hondata in the future. just trying to figure out how i wanna go about my r. i do plan on taking my r to the track

Have you identified a preferred tuner yet?

A proper tune on Hondata can definitely help maximize the most power, safely, out of your investments. Some combinations can start to lean out at high RPM's running OEM maps on track, for example.

You are motivating me to find the photos of the day I switched over from PowerFC to Hondata and update my build thread.

TYPE-RP wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:26 am

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73. A lot of tuners turn off knock sensors though anyways to eliminate the chances of throwing a code for phantom knock from having stiff or solid mounts.

so if i get rid of the knock sensors do i just turn them off through the hondata and thats it? and will it have an effect on anything else if i do?
i was looking at the p28 with the s300 from ha motorsports. is that a good route or should i just use my stock ecu?

no it wont effect anything else. i wouldnt modify your OG ecu if its and OEM USDM Type R ecu. the p28 would work fine any reputable tuner can/will tune without knock sensor because most pre 2000 honda engines dont have knock sensor anyways so its really your personal preference in my opinion.

DC231 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:03 pm

TYPE-RP wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:26 am

DC231 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am If you want to retain knock sensor circuit then you'll need to use a p72 or p73. A lot of tuners turn off knock sensors though anyways to eliminate the chances of throwing a code for phantom knock from having stiff or solid mounts.

so if i get rid of the knock sensors do i just turn them off through the hondata and thats it? and will it have an effect on anything else if i do?
i was looking at the p28 with the s300 from ha motorsports. is that a good route or should i just use my stock ecu?

no it wont effect anything else. i wouldnt modify your OG ecu if its and OEM USDM Type R ecu. the p28 would work fine any reputable tuner can/will tune without knock sensor because most pre 2000 honda engines dont have knock sensor anyways so its really your personal preference in my opinion.

alright sounds good. i was leaning more towards getting another ecu. i didnt really wanna use the stock one just seen the price difference. ill probably just run it without ther knock sensor.

From what I've understood, an over simplified explanation of the OEM knock sensor is that it's basically a mic, tuned for a specific frequency that Honda associated with pre-detonation on an OEM motor.

Engine modifications, specifically aftermarket\forged pistons but other mods as well, change engine vibrations\frequencies. This means you have an increasing chance of issues with accurate knock detection as modifications get more significant.

Obviously, if depending on knock detection as a safety measure, failure to properly detect it increases risk as there's an assumption pre-detonation will be automatically addressed. This is even more true where otherwise a tune may be more conservative or implement other measures such as an increasingly rich fuel mix. False positives with OEM knock detection on the other hand, will pull timing\de-tune and create inconsistent performance even-though the tune itself maybe appropriate.

There's also the issue that many Honda B-series knock sensors fail over time (plastic separates from the metal) and aftermarket replacements may be questionable. Testing a knock sensor for correct function (with your motor) isn't as approachable as testing other sensors. Identifying false knock sensor positives, as a source of issues, can be an unwelcome complication for tuners.

With highly strung motors, running OEM cast pistons, chances of damage prior\coincident to detection of knock is increased over an completely OEM motor not faced with raised pressures of a tuned motor. The further a build is pushed it's generally better to plan a sufficient margin to avoid knock than to depend on reaction to it.

All the above, and likely an inclination to expect customers to be less reliant on OEM protection measures, can lead tuners to advise against attempts to enable the OEM knock sensor even when available. So I highly recommend checking with your tuner what their preferences are.

If your tuner does recommend use of the OEM knock sensor you'll need to find a P72-A01 (US 94-96 GSR) ecu which is one of the few US OBD1 ecus to have the additional knock board (sits above the ecu main board). There may be a JDM ecu that has the knock board but then you'd need the JDM ecu specific s300 setup. Alternately I believe some AEM ecus may provide similar options to safety sensors and some tuners will prefer this route over Hondata.