Suspension tuning - dampers, spring rates, etc.

[DC2Iggy]

How are his shocks for daily driving? I’m looking at replacing my struts this winter and was going to go with the tried and true gc/koni with 450/350 rates

[Xian]

How are his shocks for daily driving? I’m looking at replacing my struts this winter and was going to go with the tried and true gc/koni with 450/350 rates

I haven’t run on his shocks but I’ve heard great stuff from other folks. I can say that my Moton DA’s and MCS triples made fantastic street shocks. Since his stuff is based off similar valving/curves, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be the bee’s knees around town and great over bumps.

[g3teg97]

I found I prefer concentrating on my driving, reviewing previous videos vs fiddling with knobs with just the bilstein shocks on my integra. Most of my improvements on my driving I need to make are on me vs the shocks/springs

Funny enough a buddy and I were talking about this exact thing. Probably make more of an impact with improving driving skill than just adding adjustability with shocks lol. Very good point.

[coolhandluke]

Obviously just my $0.02 but I wouldn’t sweat adjustable arms if you haven’t settled on a damper package yet. Depending on ride height, you may not even need the extra adjustments.

If you can stomach not having the ability to fiddle with knobs, I’d get in touch with Whitener and order his (Bilstein based) setup. Valving is essentially an improved version of what Moton uses in their remote doubles. Price is in the middle of the 2 options you referenced. Performance is better than both. He can also help you with suggestions on rates.

I agree with Xian @g3teg. I don't even have adjustable UCA's on my car now. I'm stepping up my data game with tire temps next with the goal of dialing in camber, hence looking at Honed rear UCA's.

How are his shocks for daily driving? I’m looking at replacing my struts this winter and was going to go with the tried and true gc/koni with 450/350 rates

Keep in mind ride quality is very relative to individual driving preferences and the larger puzzle involves:
-Spring rates
-Shock valving & settings (Rebound/Compression)
-Rim/tire size
-Rubber/spherical bushings

[g3teg97]

I agree with Xian @g3teg. I don't even have adjustable UCA's on my car now. I'm stepping up my data game with tire temps next with the goal of dialing in camber, hence looking at Honed rear UCA's.

Yup, I'm not set on anything to be honest. I know I definitely need more HPDEs to learn more on the car and driving skill. I do think there's too much body roll, think maybe upgraded dampers/shocks will help in the matter but didn't want to get something that I'd upgrade later on.

Any recommendations on spring rates for when I message Whitener? Car is not daily driven, but I take it out on the occasional weekend. And of course track days, which exp. level is just 7 track days, but instructors sign me off for solo/intermediate (fwiw).

[coolhandluke]

Yup, I'm not set on anything to be honest. I know I definitely need more HPDEs to learn more on the car and driving skill. I do think there's too much body roll, think maybe upgraded dampers/shocks will help in the matter but didn't want to get something that I'd upgrade later on.

Any recommendations on spring rates for when I message Whitener? Car is not daily driven, but I take it out on the occasional weekend. And of course track days, which exp. level is just 7 track days, but instructors sign me off for solo/intermediate (fwiw).

The more I learn, the more I learn what I don't know.

I would sit down and decide what you want, how you prefer the car to perform, and what you are willing to compromise.

Example:
-I prefer a nuetral handling car with a hint of oversteer. I prefer to induce oversteer versus as needed. My spring/RSB setup reflect this preference: 650lb F / 750lb R w/ Eibach 3-way RSB on softest setting.
-My car is track-focused, so I am willing to compromise ride-handling on the street for better performance, but I still want to be able to enjoy the car on road trips and weekends.
-With the exception of Kingpin Front Lower Compliance sphericals, everything else in my car is OEM rubber (see above.) This compromises my ability to have absolute consistency with car control/performance, but I am able to drive the car on the street regularly with ease.

I recently had the opportunity to meet and speak with Angelo from Anze Suspension. Angelo is a wealth of knowledge and I realized the mistakes in my recent suspension purchase.

For most, starting with a setup that is easily adaptable and can grow with your needs. Koni Yellows and Ground Controls come to mind.

[PatHidden]

I recently had the opportunity to meet and speak with Angelo from Anze Suspension. Angelo is a wealth of knowledge and I realized the mistakes in my recent suspension purchase.

Yea, he does that haha.

[Xian]

Yup, I'm not set on anything to be honest. I know I definitely need more HPDEs to learn more on the car and driving skill. I do think there's too much body roll, think maybe upgraded dampers/shocks will help in the matter but didn't want to get something that I'd upgrade later on.

Any recommendations on spring rates for when I message Whitener? Car is not daily driven, but I take it out on the occasional weekend. And of course track days, which exp. level is just 7 track days, but instructors sign me off for solo/intermediate (fwiw).

The more I learn, the more I learn what I don't know.

I would sit down and decide what you want, how you prefer the car to perform, and what you are willing to compromise.

Example:
-I prefer a nuetral handling car with a hint of oversteer. I prefer to induce oversteer versus as needed. My spring/RSB setup reflect this preference: 650lb F / 750lb R w/ Eibach 3-way RSB on softest setting.
-My car is track-focused, so I am willing to compromise ride-handling on the street for better performance, but I still want to be able to enjoy the car on road trips and weekends.
-With the exception of Kingpin Front Lower Compliance sphericals, everything else in my car is OEM rubber (see above.) This compromises my ability to have absolute consistency with car control/performance, but I am able to drive the car on the street regularly with ease.

I recently had the opportunity to meet and speak with Angelo from Anze Suspension. Angelo is a wealth of knowledge and I realized the mistakes in my recent suspension purchase.

For most, starting with a setup that is easily adaptable and can grow with your needs. Koni Yellows and Ground Controls come to mind.

All great points and feedback ^^.

Driver preference and experience play a huge role in what sorta rates to run and what you’ll be comfortably with. At GL South, I spent most of the weekend bombing around in my old ITA car... a caged EF Sedan. Current setup is 750/1000, no front bar, huge rear bar. I thought the balance was pretty decent but could use a little more rear bar. I’m sure there are other folks who’d think it was stupid loose and some others who’d complain that it needs more rear rate/bar.

The point being, experience/preference/driver style are HUGE contributors to what setup you run. Springs are super easy to swap out so no need to feel like you have to nail it on the first iteration. For a mostly track and sometimes street car, anything in the 500-750 range (in any front/rear combination) can work depending on rear bar choice and alignment/tire pressure. Given the rear corner weights, I’d start on the lower end of the spectrum and work your way up. Given your experience level, I’d probably stick with a stock 22mm bar until you start feeling the need for more rotation... then look at the ASR 32mm (thinwall on soft).

Last thing, don’t forget how much tire pressure changes balance. You can toss 5-10psi at the rear and make a decent change in behavior at the limit.

[coolhandluke]

Excellent points! I forgot to note alignment and tire pressures.

I feel like dialing tire pressures is the most important yet overlooked item in our toolbag. Further, different tires (street/wets vs. dry/rcomps) compound this challenge.

A pyrometer is next on my purchase list.

[Xian]

Excellent points! I forgot to note alignment and tire pressures.

I feel like dialing tire pressures is the most important yet overlooked item in our toolbag. Further, different tires (street/wets vs. dry/rcomps) compound this challenge.

A pyrometer is next on my purchase list.

I dunno about a pyrometer. I know that historically it’s a staple of everyone who tries to maximize their setup/tire performance but I’m not sure that you won’t end up chasing your tail a little. Most tracks are biased to left or right so the temps aren’t even... and then, even if you get the temps even, the balance may not be what you want. Given that we’re talking about production based chassis, I just don’t know that you’re ever going to get perfect temps, peak grip, and the right balance all at once...

And this ^^^ is assuming you’ve got someone in the pits constantly at hand to accurately measure temps.

Christian, who’s just gonna keep watching tire wear patterns, basic data, and butt-dyno balance adjustments.