Suspension tuning - dampers, spring rates, etc.

[Xian]

I did tech on a car recently that had "new" spherical rear upper arms that already had enough play to "clunk" when I wiggled the rear tires. In talking with Brinson (Kingpin Machine), he said that a bunch of the stuff out there currently is running really low quality bearings and, as a result, develops play almost instantly.

[coolhandluke]

I did tech on a car recently that had "new" spherical rear upper arms that already had enough play to "clunk" when I wiggled the rear tires. In talking with Brinson (Kingpin Machine), he said that a bunch of the stuff out there currently is running really low quality bearings and, as a result, develops play almost instantly.

That's disappointing to hear. We are so lucky to have Kingpin Machine paying attention to Honda parts. New UCA's are on my list as I'm running rcomps again.

[lanceh]

We are so lucky to have Kingpin Machine paying attention to Honda parts. New UCA's are on my list as I'm running rcomps again.

IIRC the only thing he recommends on a non-trailered car is the compliance bearing

[Xian]

We are so lucky to have Kingpin Machine paying attention to Honda parts. New UCA's are on my list as I'm running rcomps again.

IIRC the only thing he recommends on a non-trailered car is the compliance bearing

That's the best bang for the buck... that being said, there's no reason that you can't run all his parts on a street car. They'll hold up fine with a minimal increase in NVH. My bet is that he's trying to say that there's little real "need" for them on a street car.

PS
He was hanging around the Paddock for most of GL South and brought some of his parts for folks to check out. The level of workmanship in his parts still blows me away... and he's an absolute hoot to BS with.

[907ITR]

I've been pretty happy with how my setup has been performing, althought the disparity between the front and rear spring rates has always intrigued me as to why Ohlins did that. Though it appears that was answered in the first page of this thread.

Front
Ohlins DFV 14k spring rate
PCI Spherical UCA
3* camber
1/16th toe out (total, 1/32nd per side)
OEM JDM 25mm FSB
16x8 +38 215/45/16 RT615k+

Rear
Ohlins DFV 6k spring rate
ASR 25mm adjustable RSB w/ spherical end links on middle setting
16x7 +42 215/45/16 RT615k+
1.5* camber w/ stock links
Zero toe

After changing the sway bars from the OEM USDM ITR stuff to the current setup I noticed the car felt significantly more planted at autocross and had a lot less roll. At a recent track event I noticed a bit more oversteer (expected) which is what I prefer, but also a bit of understeer on corner exit when applying throttle. I'm still using the OEM diff, and I wonder if an OSGiken 1 way clutch type diff would help the understeer I'm seeing. I did have adjustable rear camber links, but the spherical ends had a significant amount of play in them after just 1000 miles, and were making a loud clunking noise at my autocross tech inspection, so back to OEM I went.

What are the age/mileage (condition) of the car's bushings? What motor mounts?

Car has just under 50k miles and everything is in excellent condition. Currently it's running the stiffest Hasport mount durometer without being full on metal. The car will be going back to a B18C this winter from its current K swap, and will get 62A mounts instead. I want to get out of SMF in autocross and go back down to STX, so I'll probably be going to K-Tuned UCA in the front and rear camber links, with regular bushings. The camber links I had in the rear were from a reputable company that's well known in our community, so it was pretty shocking to see they had crapped out so fast.

[coolhandluke]

IIRC the only thing he recommends on a non-trailered car is the compliance bearing

Correct, Chris typically recommends bushings for street driven cars. My car sits unless driving to the track. Given the low quality UCA's on the market, I am considering options for rear UCA's.

We are so lucky to have Kingpin Machine paying attention to Honda parts. New UCA's are on my list as I'm running rcomps again.

IIRC the only thing he recommends on a non-trailered car is the compliance bearing

That's the best bang for the buck... that being said, there's no reason that you can't run all his parts on a street car. They'll hold up fine with a minimal increase in NVH. My bet is that he's trying to say that there's little real "need" for them on a street car.

PS
He was hanging around the Paddock for most of GL South and brought some of his parts for folks to check out. The level of workmanship in his parts still blows me away... and he's an absolute hoot to BS with.

Kingpin pieces are works of art. The welds, precision machining, etc. Unmatched quality.

[coolhandluke]

....What are the age/mileage (condition) of the car's bushings? What motor mounts?

Car has just under 50k miles and everything is in excellent condition. Currently it's running the stiffest Hasport mount durometer without being full on metal. The car will be going back to a B18C this winter from its current K swap, and will get 62A mounts instead. I want to get out of SMF in autocross and go back down to STX, so I'll probably be going to K-Tuned UCA in the front and rear camber links, with regular bushings. The camber links I had in the rear were from a reputable company that's well known in our community, so it was pretty shocking to see they had crapped out so fast.

Mileage at this point is superceded by age. Even after replacing every bushing (with OEM) in my 97, the front LCA's bushings were already showing signs of "drop" after ~20k and ~3yrs. At 50k and 16+ years, your bushings are likely degraded. Sadly, much of the aftermarket are cheap knock off or Taiwanese made junk. Some Hard Race stuff didn't last 1yr/10k in my 97, so I converted to OEM. The Hard Race front lower control arms in my 98 last longer, 26k/10yrs, but I replaced with OEM units from Kingpin.

[907ITR]

....What are the age/mileage (condition) of the car's bushings? What motor mounts?

Car has just under 50k miles and everything is in excellent condition. Currently it's running the stiffest Hasport mount durometer without being full on metal. The car will be going back to a B18C this winter from its current K swap, and will get 62A mounts instead. I want to get out of SMF in autocross and go back down to STX, so I'll probably be going to K-Tuned UCA in the front and rear camber links, with regular bushings. The camber links I had in the rear were from a reputable company that's well known in our community, so it was pretty shocking to see they had crapped out so fast.

Mileage at this point is superceded by age. Even after replacing every bushing (with OEM) in my 97, the front LCA's bushings were already showing signs of "drop" after ~20k and ~3yrs. At 50k and 16+ years, your bushings are likely degraded. Sadly, much of the aftermarket are cheap knock off or Taiwanese made junk. Some Hard Race stuff didn't last 1yr/10k in my 97, so I converted to OEM. The Hard Race front lower control arms in my 98 last longer, 26k/10yrs, but I replaced with OEM units from Kingpin.

Interesting. Maybe I'll be making a stop to the dealership to buy OEM bushings before they disappear. Spoon also makes a bushing set, and it's only $170, I've never been a fan of most of the things available on the aftermarket. Spoon is one of the manufacturers I would trust when it comes to something like that.

Age definitely plays a factor though, my doors are already starting to sag a bit and the windows are rattling when rolled down. Definitely on my to-do list this winter.

[Sort of Fast]

....What are the age/mileage (condition) of the car's bushings? What motor mounts?

Car has just under 50k miles and everything is in excellent condition. Currently it's running the stiffest Hasport mount durometer without being full on metal. The car will be going back to a B18C this winter from its current K swap, and will get 62A mounts instead. I want to get out of SMF in autocross and go back down to STX, so I'll probably be going to K-Tuned UCA in the front and rear camber links, with regular bushings. The camber links I had in the rear were from a reputable company that's well known in our community, so it was pretty shocking to see they had crapped out so fast.

Mileage at this point is superceded by age. Even after replacing every bushing (with OEM) in my 97, the front LCA's bushings were already showing signs of "drop" after ~20k and ~3yrs. At 50k and 16+ years, your bushings are likely degraded. Sadly, much of the aftermarket are cheap knock off or Taiwanese made junk. Some Hard Race stuff didn't last 1yr/10k in my 97, so I converted to OEM. The Hard Race front lower control arms in my 98 last longer, 26k/10yrs, but I replaced with OEM units from Kingpin.

I ran energy suspension bushings on my GSR hatch for 5 years (90k miles --I drove it a lot) and never replaced anything. It was a daily and I took it to the track about 6 times a year. I'm not sure where they're manufactured, but I never had an issue with them. The only bushings that give me issues on my current track car is the skunk2 rear control arm bushings. Those are utter trash. Bushings last no longer than a year then crumple into tiny bits when the arm is removed from the car.

[coolhandluke]

Interesting. Maybe I'll be making a stop to the dealership to buy OEM bushings before they disappear. Spoon also makes a bushing set, and it's only $170, I've never been a fan of most of the things available on the aftermarket. Spoon is one of the manufacturers I would trust when it comes to something like that.

Age definitely plays a factor though, my doors are already starting to sag a bit and the windows are rattling when rolled down. Definitely on my to-do list this winter.

Ping Cris @ Acura Parts Express or Chris @ Kingpin Machine. Both support ITR Expo and can do two options:
1.) Buy OEM bushings or complete arms for self-install (Acura Parts Express)
2.) Buy arms with already installed spherical or OEM bushings (Kingpin Machine)

I'm not skilled at pressing bushings other than RTA's, so I went with a combo of new OEM arms (Rear LCA's, Rear Sway Bar, Rear Compliance / Toe) and new OEM via Kingpin (Front LCA's.)